Doom. Sauron was stronger than Gandalf in the Lord of the Rings, but it has to be said that there were a few different shapes of both characters. Tolkien says in Letter 246 that the Ring is not only comparable to "a devastating weapon" (which Frodo doesn't know how to use) but also to "an object of terror in their religious cult, by which they had been conditioned to treat one who wielded it with servility". JavaScript is disabled. He easily would have had mastery over the ring itself. What happens next would depend on Sauron himself; whether he would seek to retake the Ring immediately; whether he would visit Saruman himself or send a lesser servant. By clicking Accept All, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. Around 500 years before The Lord of the Rings, the White Council was formed in Rivendell -- a group for Middle-earth's most powerful beings to discuss Sauron.Galadriel wanted Gandalf to take the head position, but Saruman insisted that he be in charge because of his status. Could he really do anything with it? We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Latest Blog Post: Jacks Bad Movies Black Adam (2022). We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. So it is my assumption that Saruman wanted the One Ring so he could forge his own Ring of Power. Sauron would then have suspended his campaign against Minas Tirith, and instead sent his armies north-west, through Rohan towards Isengard. In the case of Sauron it increased his ability to deceive people, entice people to his will, made him stronger and faster then he had been, wiser in the use of his raw poweress, "and he could see and govern the very thoughts of those that wore the lesser Rings of Power." Its probably been done already, and if so I apologize, but: If Saruman had gotten his greedy lil mitts on the one ring, would he have been able to set himself up as a new dark lord (or however they call themselves)? Hidden realms of elves in the past had undone the plans of Morgoth himself, and Sauron was not likely to let such a thing go unchallenged. The Lord of the Rings. It was literally Sauron's essence made into an inanimate object. Saruman knew good and well what would happen when he tried holding Gandalf. Tolkein himself said that it would have been a difficult battle, and might have gone either way, but that One of the true great powers could have dedfeated Sauron by using the Ring. Even from afar he had an effect upon it, to make it work for its return to himself. How to watch all 'The Lord of the Rings' movies and series in He's the anti-hero in his own story who spends time with the Blue Wizards in the East, heads up the White Council, and eventually . As with Gandalf or Galadriel, the Ring would comply with the good intent of their first efforts. If a law is new but its interpretation is vague, can the courts directly ask the drafters the intent and official interpretation of their law? " The Hunt for the Ring " is a chapter in Unfinished Tales, a posthumously published work of J.R.R. These are not some sort of machine gun, or beam weapon that is just leveled at the enemy, by anyone who happens to wear them. In Tolkiens writings, they came across the sea. This mod, although it doesn't add a new staff to the game, creates a unique design for all of the Skyrim staves. Posted September 4, 2007. mysticalblues said: My roommate met someone last week that had a ring that she got in St. Thomas. What would happen if Saruman got the ring? He believed that Sauron would never return, so he had his own set of schemes. Even though Frodo had a 4-5 day head-start further east and would be entering the Dead Marshes on March 1st, Saruman would also have had a head-start on everyone else in terms of knowledge and certainty. Answer (1 of 12): I agree with what has been said. Gandalf & Galadriel admitted they would eventually fall to evil will of Sauron through the One Ring. What If Sauron Recovered the One Ring in Lord of the Rings? Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. The other Rings of power could be used by anyone else varying only by the individual. At the same time, most of the Elves were leaving Middle-earth, and Saruman betrayed everyone and joined Sauron. Just like when Sauron, arguably the most powerful 'mage' of that time, did during the last alliance the one where he lost due to a mere human? A capable bearer would have all that power, plus whatever native power he or she had to begin with. Saruman summon the storm on Caradhras in the PJverse in The Fellowship of the Ring. Saruman is one of few "grey" characters in the books, meaning he's neither gone fully evil or good. The One Ring has a number of powers and depending on what information (particularly regarding the Middle Earth RPG) you will get very vague to very specific capabilties for the One Ring. It has been suggested that the reason why Saruman lost access to magic after the . He did not fear Sauron, but rather was forbidden to contest with him directly. Even still, Frodo set the benchmark for hope and volunteered to take the One Ring to Mordor, where he destroyed it and saved the world from disaster. The Mystics, believing the Stranger is Sauron, tell him he must go to Rhn to fully explore his powers. What money is available for senior citizens? Nazgul were formidable opponants, under the right circumstances. Why are Suriname, Belize, and Guinea-Bissau classified as "Small Island Developing States"? RELATED: The Lord of the Rings: 10 Details About Sauron's Costume You Never Noticed This incident, one of those that was invented for the film to increase tension, is an incredible missed opportunity for the minions of the Dark . And in The Rings of Power, when the mystics realized their error, they said the Stranger is the Istarnot one of the Istari, the Istar, as if only one is present in Middle-earth right now. Well? Imagine that, after breaking of Fellowship, Saruman`s Uruk-Hai capture Frodo and bring him, with the ring, to Isengard. However, Gandalf knew that if he being an extremely powerful Maiar just like Sauron had taken the One Ring, he would become no different than the Dark Lord. The Lord of the Rings (LOTR) by J. R. R. Tolkien is one of the greatest and most famous epic fantasy series in English literature. Also, it says in the book that the Nazgul went to Isengard demanding news of the ring and if Sauraman had the ring, Sauraman said if I had the ring you would bow down to me and call me lord I think Saruman would've won if he captured the ring. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. ncdu: What's going on with this second size column? He fought Uruk-hai (who had captured Merry and Pippin thinking they were Frodo) and were enroute to Isengard. He aided Frodo but he did not save him or the Quest from certain ruin as Eomer did by attacking the orc band. If he didn't get the Truth from Saruman, he could get it from the halflings and if they were dead due to Saruman, capture and question any of Saruman's orcs or men roaming between Isengard and the Black Gate. For The War of the Rohirrim anime, one answer might draw on the "canon" of the Peter Jackson films. What if Saruman had gotten the ring? - Cafe Society - Straight Dope I recall the Narsil having been forged by the elves, using elvish magic. So if Saruman mastered the Ring, he would become the next Dark Lord of Middle-earth. What If SARUMAN managed to get his hands on the One Ring and how that . Short story taking place on a toroidal planet or moon involving flying, Acidity of alcohols and basicity of amines, The difference between the phonemes /p/ and /b/ in Japanese, Replacing broken pins/legs on a DIP IC package. What TV series related to the "Matter of Middle-earth" would you prefer to see? If you preorder a special airline meal (e.g. Right-wing rings of power: The far-right's bizarre obsession with Lord He regained his identity and seemingly his memories, but the Stranger did not say, Hi, Nori, I have a name and its Gandalf. His friendship with the adventurous Harfoot, his mannerisms, and some of his lines ring true for Gandalf the Grey. They'd be capable of wielding it and would be a threat to Sauron, though Sauron would probably win in the end as The Ring was only . So He would do what He did after His defeat by Isildur. If Saruman had taken and claimed the Ring for his own, Sauron would have been aware of it immediately. The situation in The Lord of the Rings was pretty dire. Saruman in the Shire: how long had he been planning it? I imagine it'd be a similar situation as if Gandalf or Saruman got The Ring. He still had the nine, and perhaps some of the seven. Mostly, though, he most enjoys writing about Star Wars. In the book it is sort of implied that certain beings with sufficient power (e.g. It only takes a minute to sign up. We know that disobedience can bring ruin such as what happened with the Noldor when they disobeyed the Valar or the Army of the Dead when they disobeyed Isildur and broke their oath to fight for him. Orcs are poster children for corruption, and plague the Fellowship throughout the novels. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. When the Valar realized Sauron had returned, they sent the Istari to help the peoples of Middle-earth. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. Saruman probably would have become the dominant power in Middle Earth and turned it into a pretty crappy place to live. Director Peter Jackson adapted the books into six films divided into two trilogies The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit.More popularly referred to as The Lord of the Rings movies, watching them in chronological order helps viewers place certain disparate events . In any event, a confrontation between Saruman and Sauron seems as though it would not be a closely fought as the one between Gandalf and Sauron described above; Gandalf was able to cast-out Saruman, so it seems as though Sauron would have more easily had the upper-hand in such a contest. Why did Saruman seem to believe that Sauron wouldn't return? Maybe, though i dont know that much about Sauman's power and. It may have taken a while to learn to use the Ring to its full potential, and Sauron would surely have put everything he had behind trying to get it back, but itd be iffy, and he certainly couldnt use the Nazgul or other ring-empowered creatures against the weilder of the One. Saruman would have made a tasty little morsel for Sauron. There would have been one less Peter Jackson movie. One can imagine Letter 246 describes a hypothetical confrontation between a hypothetical Ring-bearing Gandalf and Sauron: Confrontation of Sauron alone, unaided, self to self was not contemplated. The Hunt for the Ring - Tolkien Gateway You must log in or register to reply here. Sauron may not learn the true goal of the Ringbearer but he would know that the ringbearer was most likely near or nearing his borders. You are using an out of date browser. What happens if Sauron gets the ring? - Quora All the latest gaming news, game reviews and trailers. Obviously, the Uruk-hai didn't make it back to Isengard, and they didn't have the Ring anyway. Saruman wants to be Saurons only servant. That he will never do now.". But if they did, Saruman would have had the One Ring in his possession. the lord of the rings - Did Sauron give any care to Saruman or was he Lord of the Rings: Why Galadriel Was the Only Ringbearer to Keep Her Ring Galadriel and Gandalf each made a conscious decision not to embark on such a course; but Saruman would not have hesitated. What would have happened if Saruman had gotten the One Ring? Seem's strange when the ring's main purpose was to rule over the rings/leaders? He easily would have had mastery over the ring itself. Ultimately, we dont know who the Stranger is, aside from being an Istar, or a wizard. The three, which Celebrimbor made, were not made to gain dominion over others. Gil Galad, and the last alliance also defeated Sauron, without the help of the Maiar, as well. So what's a few millennia. In the chaos Eomer created, two hobbits managed to escape with the help of a greedy orc and met with an ancient being which in turn led to the ruin of Saruman. He also had control of the nine kings and such or was supposed to, although didn't Elrond get a ring yet was present at the battle? That he will never do now." Saruman with the Ring would presumably have tried to do what Tolkien says Galadriel or Gandalf might have done, if they have succumbed to the temptation of accepting the Ring: There would have been no need to send an army; this would have been a one-on-one contest in Orthanc. It does not store any personal data. Which probably wouldn't have happened. Chief among the powers of the ring that were feared by the White Council was the fact that if Sauron put it on now, all that had been done by the Wise using the three rings would be revealed to him, as would their minds, if they did not take off the rings. Saruman tries to master the ring, but he doesn't completely achieve such mastery. It was never explained how, but the Elves found a way to block Saurons sight from their Rings. Even some of the imagery in his scenes screams Gandalf. By the time we meet Saruman in The Lord of the Rings, hes up to no good. The White Wizard -- at the height of his power -- could have been a match for the Ringless Dark Lord. If Gandalf proved the victor, the result would have been for Sauron the same as the destruction of the Ring; for him it would have been destroyed, taken from him for ever. Gandalf was hand-selected and sent by Manw. Sauron then spends the rest of his life torturing Saruman for daring to try and take the ring for himself. Saruman was most skilled in Ring Lore, save Sauron. If any artists would like us to remove their artwork, or add anything additional to credit you, please contact us and we will sort it straight away! But he didn't because Eomer disobeyed his king and destroyed an orc band that had the most crucial thing needed by both Saruman and Sauron - information. Is the man a thousand times stronger than a normal man? Saruman wants to be Sauron's . If he would have been strong enough to control the ring, what would have happened to Sauron? What did Tolkien originally write? JavaScript is disabled. Narsil was made by the dwarves not elves. When Gandalf sent Frodo and the Hobbits to Bree in The Lord of the Rings' opening act, he had the fullest intent of meeting them there. There's this passage that describes what happened after the death of his physical body: To the dismay of those that stood by, about the body of Saruman a grey mist gathered, and rising slowly to a great height like smoke from a fire, as a pale shrouded figure it loomed over the Hill. Was he not already the warlord of a growing realm, a commander of orcs and men? The power they have is to give stature to the wearer in the minds of others, and to enhance the emotional strength of the wearer, in the manner desired by their maker. If he succeeded in doing that, Sauron would have been defeated because it was his saving anchor. What is the significance of Saruman's Ring? The Lord Of The Rings: 10 Ways Sauron Could Have Won - ScreenRant It's a good question. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Whether he judged correctly is another matter, but I would expect it to be a contest. What happened to Saruman(after he died)? : r/tolkienfans - reddit If you know how to use it, its an *extremely* powerful magical artifact. He had already copied Sauron in every other aspect. Tolkiens trilogy its even plastered on the cover of several editions of the books. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. But the Ring and all its works would have endured. Tolkien. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. We'll pick u. The chapter is a partly published version of a manuscript now held at the Marquette University (MSS 4/2/31-37); [1] other parts of this manuscript and a time scheme have been included in The . Telchar, an uber Dwarven smith who lived in the first age, forged Narsil. Two Maiar duking it out at their full strength would have brought ruin to much of Middle-earth, and that was exactly what the Valar had hoped to avoid in the first place. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. But if The Rings of Power already called dibs on Gandalf's origins, there's always the tale of what the grey wizard got up to between The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings, a story so worthwhile . When given the opportunity It would betray Its wearer, and find Its way back to Its Master. Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? Saruman's Ring | The Tolkien Forum In fact, he had started searching for the . If Saruman had not been corrupted in the first place, the war might have gone much easier for the Free Peoples. Even if Saruman won this hypothetical battle, it would be ultimately irrelevant. What can a lawyer do if the client wants him to be acquitted of everything despite serious evidence? The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". Basically it took a super-human with a super-sword to chop the ring off of Sauron's hand and he only did that with a lucky hit. Galadriel) might have been able to master the ring. RELATED: How Morgoth Created Glaurung and The Lord of the Rings' Dragons. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. What if Saruman hadn't gone bad? | The Tolkien Forum Gandalf - open displays of power versus his restrictions as an Istar. My understanding of the crushingly unavoidable fate which is the history of Middle Earth says that the One Ring belongs to Sauron and no other. Saruman Secretly Forged His Own Ring of Power in The Lord of the Rings. Why are non-Western countries siding with China in the UN? RELATED: Thranduil Was a Jerk - But Lord of the Rings' Only Dark Elf Was Actually Evil. The eagles cant carry the Fellowship to Mordor because Gandalf cant simply summon a squadron of birds to divebomb Mount Doom. 12 Best Skyrim Staff Mods - Gaming - MOW Why Did Saruman Join Sauron In The Lord Of The Rings? - Fiction Horizon Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for science fiction and fantasy enthusiasts. Many of the vague abilities listed above are also part and parcel to those abilities listed below. However, that's not the most likely scenario. The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". All betting content is intended for an . https://www.patreon.com/thebrokensword-----Also if you want to support in a different way then check out our Teespring page where we upload original designs for our merch! What about orcs, or trolls wielding the rings taken from the dwarves? Tolkien's complex writings and retcons don't reveal a crystal-clear answer about Saruman arriving first, but if you go by The Silmarillion, Saruman did. Knowing where he ends up would make the Strangers current journey all the more fascinating. In conclusion, if a Maia (Gandalf or Saruman) would get and use the ring, a bitter fight to the end would ensue between the keeper of the ring and Sauron, a fight even more bitter than the one between elves and orcs, Gondor and Mordor, much like an evil kinstrife to the death. The implication is that Saruman has to defeat Sauron. She seems to have seriously pondered what she might do if she got hold of the Ring, and she was only an Elf, not a Maiar like Saruman. That was a lucky hitand did you perhaps notice that Sauron was more or less single-handedly beating the entire Last Alliance army at that point? By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. We learn that Denethor, steward of Gondor, had used the Palantir to divine knowledge of the Enemys movements only just before the steward burns himself alive. Feel free to contact him by email at hawkins.blake12@gmail.com, or find him on Facebook. Balrogs are intelligent sentient beings. Imagine that, after breaking of Fellowship, Saruman`s Uruk-Hai capture Frodo and bring him, with the ring, to Isengard. Rather, Saruman would have had to dominate Sauron's will and essentially kick him out of the Ring. Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. The greatest act of disobedience in LOTR had possibly the greatest consequences which in the end saved the Quest of the Ring and saved Middle-Earth that being Eomer's act of disobedience. Avenue Magazine editor Peter Davis gets engaged on Vail mountaintop Since both are immortal, Saruman is going to be tortured for a long, long, long, long, LONG time. See Palantr Wikipedia . So, it seems Sauron is not invincible, even with the ring, much less against it.
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