Depending on where you stand in the stabilization debate, this could prove a dealbreaker. Both of them are chambered in uncommon, proprietary bottleneck cartridges, the 5.7x28mm and 4.6x30mm, respectively. But I also own several Springfields (M1As in 308 & 6.5cm, Saint Ar15 when it first came out, compact XDe, XDs & XD Mod2 all in 45s, TRPs in 45 & 10mm and the now discontinued Range Officer in 45). This test was performed cold, one and done with no makeups. Privacy Policy. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - First AR15 purchase; SIG M400 TREAD v. Springfield Saint Victor? The Rattler is, essentially, as. According to the Sig Rep on ARFCOM: "6.75"/LVAW barrel was/is not made to be fired unsuppressed. Now weve got Springfields PDW in a similarly sized envelope, namely albeit chambered in 5.56 NATO. The TaurusTX 22 Compact delivers class-leading reliability, capacity, and shootability in a 22 LR platform, and it's cut for a slide-mounted mini red dot. These guns eventually faded awaypartially because of their ammunition and because it was easier to use a variant of the M4 Carbinebut the need did not. Some of these extras include a top-end self-lubricating nickel-boron trigger, suppressor-ready heavy tungsten buffer, adjustable SB Tactical SBA3 brace and forward hand stop. But Wilsons Q-Comp flash hider/muzzle brake also does its part in keeping the gun manageable. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. But its really a 100-yard rifle with supersonic ammunition. But thats not really new, either. What we came up with was three AR-15s with upgrades that distinguished them from more traditional models. What surprised me as much as the complete reliability was how soft-shooting the PDW was. SIG MCX Rattler SBR . You have entered an incorrect email address! Please give me your thoughts and opinions! If I did buy another SIG rifle it would be the 716 to replace my Victor .308 (most know my issues with this gun). Minuteman. Sig Sauer SIGMCX Rattler 300 AAC Blackout PMCX-300B-5B-TAP-PSB vs Like all things in life, this entails tradeoffs. That said, most of the 6.75" barrels shoot supers unsuppressed just fine. With the shooter lined up on the center target, the object was to land as many hits as possible into the central A-zone of each paper target within a fixed 10-second time limit. 300 AAC Blackout. MCX or Saint - Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association 9mm this thing is a work of art and insanely smooth as silk , it shoots its self ..LOL. Springfield XDM Elite 9mm! Is it better than Sig P320 and - YouTube When not at his press or the range he can be found chasing mule deer around the Rocky Mountains. The recoil was manageable with the hottest loads, and it was a pleasure to shoot with subsonics. You get what you pay for, in this case a pistol loaded with the companys high-performance custom parts and extras you wont find on economy models. Fitting right into this slot is the Saint Victor 300 Blackout Pistol. The SCAR 15P is chambered for 5.56 NATO and, with its 7.5-inch barrel, is the most compact SCAR to date. The rear-sight assembly (sometimes referred to as BUIS or backup iron sight) was a flip-up design. I was really happy . Reader's Choice: Best AR-15 (Stock or Factory Model) - The Firearm Blog Takedown revealed nickel-boron coating of hammer and trigger components, plus a tension screw to fix any gap between the upper and lower ends of the rifle. PDW stands for personal defense weapon. It is not a term that Springfield Armory invented. All Rights Reserved. Anything under 10.5" and not only do you run the risk of a strike but you are also going to get a ton of unburnt powder trashing the inside of the can. . Shooting the Black Hills 60-grain V-Max 223 ammunition, we were rewarded with five-shot groups that measured an average of just 0.6 inch across. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. I had several concerns due to its comically short barrel, its accuracy, reliability and velocity. It boasts the nice extra of a forward flash diverter, clearing the line of sight for fast follow-ups and target acquisition. With its A1 front-sight assembly, two-piece plastic handguard and M4 buttstock, the M400 Classic did not appear to be a carbine with the type of upgrades we were looking for. Of course, given the Rattlers short barrel, some gel testing was in order. The BCM Gunfighter buttstock offered sleek lines with no protruding levers that might catch on gear, such as the straps of a chest rig. Yes, we would have preferred a flat-top gas block with rail for attaching a folding front sight, and were not exactly sure how to connect a sling to the front end without pulling on the barrel, but were not sure there is much else wrong. The 300 rattler was designed to be suppressed. Magazine release from the left side was a little easier if pressure was applied more toward the rearward edge than over the center of the button. After comparing the two the Springfield was built better and . 7 Things You Need to Know Before Buying an AR Pistol A final note, the Protector is a very shootable pistol, thanks in part to its heft (a shade under 6 pounds). MSRP: $2,000; wilsoncombat.com. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. The gas block is pinned in place. Because I knew the velocity would be lacking, most of my chronographing was done with 5.56 NATO ammo, which runs a bit hotter. One by-product of this arrangement was an extension of the lower portion of the bolt lock/release lever. In addition to all that, for the features you get on this pistol, it is priced very reasonably. And in the end after a couple of weeks go by she said to my are you happy with your choice I said of course , why I said . they bring all the guns and you buy the ammo and have a blast . The Eberlestock bag worked well with the gun sporting a suppressor and fully loaded, and removing the can and ammunition would allow the Rattler to slide into a small laptop case. With the stock folded, the gun is only 16 inches long, making it the shortest 300 Blackout weapon on the market. To test this, I fed the PDW Black Hills 77-grain TMK load in addition to more traditional offerings. Additionally, given the use of heavier bullets (200-grains plus and thereabouts), the loads have a smaller powder charge compared to their supersonic counterparts. Sig's new SnakeBite . It opened up at about 3 inches and penetrated 12.7 inches, retaining 192.8 grains of its original bullet weight. Thanks Bio. I really liked the Blue TS2 ,so in the end she was getting one for me for a surprise for my birthday . At the rear of the receiver, youll see the Maxim Defense SCW brace. (Tie) LWRC Smg-45 ($3k?fuck!) The top rail was not really functional as a connection point, but it provided venting. We tend to the 7.5-inch SBA3 model, given its the rare smallster in the caliber that doesnt demand a kings ransom. This round was designed to offer terminal ballistics similar to the AKs 7.62x39mm while still being compatible with AR-style rifles, requiring only a barrel change. ". The Barnes 110-grain TAC-TX had fully expanded by 7 inches, leaving a perfectly mushroomed bullet weighing 108 grains at 26 inches. For more information, please see our Nevertheless, we were able to score A-zone hits with all 12 rounds fired before time ran out. I realize in the current climate you may have to take what you can get. Ive tested full-size rifles that werent any more accurate than that. Like the MPX, the MCX uses a short-stroke gas piston system, which does away with the need for a buffer system, and the weapon can use a folding stock or no stock at all. SIG Sauer Introduces the New SIG Tread Snakebite SE. Installed with a 3/8-inch drive socket from the front, it can fit under handguards. Runs great. As to the brace, its a Tailhook Mod 2, an adjustable model that does an excellent job of settling in the gun. On the M400, there is an extension that adds surface area in an L-shape, making it much easier to operate. Jeff Bradley shows off the Modern Hunting Rifle (MHR) from Christensen Arms at SHOT Show 2023. Hay Talyn, The 1st pic is of the new Switchblade 5.56 Pistol , Which is a real pic from the LGS. It also directs sound and blast forward, away from the shooter and provides some flash reduction. Built with a premium nickel boron coated trigger, forged carrier, enhanced Melonite coated carrier group and a pinned gas block, every rifle is built for ultimate reliability. But like you, I also bought the SA Saint Victor 300 BLK pistol, which is very well made. Wed prefer a free-float sling attachment, but the Saint is handsome and well made at a good price. New! Decibels dont drop like flies with every load. Taylors & Company FS Tactical 1911: Now in 10mm! In the same breath, the gun is compact enough to enhance its nimbleness, yet big enough to ensure the cartridges ballistic integrity. When I saw it, I wanted to hate it, specifically for what it isnt. As to the tale of the tape, the gun has a 10.5-inch cold hammer-forged barrel (1:7 twist) and comes in at a very agile 5.8 pounds. However, moving to the Barnes, Hornady and Lehigh Defense rounds changed things. During our action tests, we found the fixed front sight a little distracting, even though we had it aligned (co-witnessed) with our Romeo4 red-dot sight. Full Member. My wife said I'm going to buy me a new gun which one do you think the Blue or Orange . The Sig Rattler is only available with a 5.5 inch barrel, in 300 Blackout or 5.56mm. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. and at a gun show I saw the Sig Cross bolt rifle . Springfield Armory of Illinois has been producing its own versions of the iconic M1A rifle for many years, but Springfield, like several other manufacturers, is known primarily as makers of handguns, or for that matter bolt-action rifles. Matte Black. The 3rd pic is the new Snakebite M400 5.56 Rifle , But It's a stock photo . Sig 716i or Springfield Victor Saint .308. On a full-size rifle or carbine, I think the relieved magazine well of the Saint Edge looks a bit small, but on this build it looks just right. I was at a gun expo local set up by or LGS where all the repp's come and its a shoot day . Springfield Saint with FDE, OD Green, and Stealth Grey Rattlecan Paint Job. And I also used a LaRue Tactical offset mount to install a SureFire M312 Vampire Scout, which produces white and IR light. Sure, they are a ton of fun at the range, teaching children how to shoot, and for use in defending the homestead, but consider them for hunting applications as well. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Elwood Shelton is an online content developer for Gun Digest. A wide selection of CMP surplus ammo will 2023 JNews - Premium WordPress news & magazine theme by Jegtheme. Springfield incorporates some nice accessories from Reptilia Corp. like the CQG pistol grip, which has a more vertical angle than the standard AR grip. Its perfect for indoor situations where 25 yards is a long shot and overpenetration is a concern. I fired the Rattler off-hand from 10 and 15 yards with the earlier test loads and a few others, including Winchesters 150-grain Deer Season XP ammunition and Noslers 220-grain BTs. A quick note on sub- and supersonic ammunition and suppression. The target to our right showed three A-zone hits and a stray shot in the D-zone, furthest from center. At that time the price on that gun was $1,800. I Have the 1st Sig's M400 Tread and it's a nice gun , It shoots great and built very good . Many contend a 1:8 twist will stabilize heavy subsonic bullets. During our action tests, we landed four A-zone hits on targets left and center. Fun as all get out to rattle off the range. Much of their stuff is imported and rebranded. M400 tread or Springfield saint victor : r/ar15 - reddit As far as apples to apples, do your research and see for yourself that you will get slightly better product with a Springfield compared to a sig, better coatings on barrel, BCG (both melonite) and a Nickel boron coated trigger. This gun has a picatinny rail system for accessories, a six-position collapsible stock, a flash suppressor and a single-stage trigger. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. Relatively speaking, the 300 Blackout is better suited to shorter barreled guns; in fact, it was designed for exactly this task. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Somy wife and i was having lunch with the Sig rep. and I asked about the .308 maybe coming out in the tread And he said soon which it did . Indoors, every load produced visible flash, but premium ammo gave me a small, manageable flash. A few times the bolt wouldnt lock back after firing the last round with the SilencerCo Omega 9K in place. The companys thinking must be a suppressor is going on there anyway, so cut costs with the standard muzzle device. Hence there are solid copper bullets for high speed applications in 16 inch carbines (1/6 rate or greater) that shoot 300 BLK, but the ammo is expensive. Subscriber Services. With the Saint Edge series of ARs, you get nicely sculpted lower receivers machined from billet aluminum. So much so that we almost took to calling it a three-stage trigger. The gun is boringly reliable and is sized to be a near-constant companionat least anywhere youll tote a rucksack. In these times, what you want and what is available are two very different things. I would deploy this as a dedicated entry rifle in a heartbeat. Actually, there is little here that would put off the sophisticated shooter as well. I'm like seriously I could of got the checkmate . An example that comes to mind is how the handguard that comes stock has mlok that only goes halfway down, and people complain about it getting real hot, and conveniently they sell a upgraded version with mlok that covers the whole thing, and effectively solves . We also liked the bead-blast finish on the barrel. Don't wrestle with pigs, don't argue with idiots. Though, the pistol is a 1:8 twist rate affair. For an AR, it conceals and transports incredibly well, is surprisingly soft-shooting, accurate and reliable, unique and fun. Dont be fooled, a 16-inch carbine in Blackout will outperform a 9-inch Blackout pistol. OK, so they want in sending rounds waaaay downrange. Saint Edge in .300 blackout? | The Armory Life Forum With the provided 20-round Magpul PMAG in place, the PDW weighs 5 pounds, 10 ounces. Before we get there, lets look at the concept of the personal-defense weapon (PDW). Given the test barrel used to produce this data was likely 20 inches or more in length, we think this was still somewhat out of spec. Detent at the safety was heavy and secure without any rough edges. But it was visible when we used the Romeo4 red-dot scope. This may be true for some configurations, in certain environments, with particular loads. You have entered an incorrect email address! So goes the AR-556 line of ARs. The full-profile barrel creates a line that grows from a polymer handguard by Bravo Company that was flat on the sides, adorned with sections of pebbled finish for grip. Our Suppressor Guru, seen here with a SIG Sauer SRD-762 on a SIG Rattler, provides some pointers. I've shot the Saint a few times and my local lgs and I like the trigger, feel and ergonomics. You got the CZ shadow 2 orange is it 9mm or 40 cal. This website contains many older reviews. The only spot on the Rattler is its trigger. The 300 rattler was designed to be suppressed. SIG P320 TACOPS vs Springfield XDM Elite 4.5 Tactical The visual theme of the Saint was that it looks to be one piece instead of an upper and lower, or as some say, it looks monolithic. Bob Meinert, FN Marketing Director, introduces FN's first commercial pistol suppressor, the FN Rush 9Ti. With the specs they listed, the barrel couldnt be much more than 6 inches, and it had to havethe ability to swap between the specd .300 BLK top end and one chambered in 5.56. These two hunting loads made perfect little holes and passed through their blocks without expanding. The Tread was $799.00 and the Saint was $849.00. I usually rent them from my lgs and/or borrow my friend's. As our tests continued and the trigger broke in, we sometimes experienced only one stopping point before break. Spring loaded at rest, there was a platform on each side that released the sight instantaneously to its vertical position. As far as stabilization, it features the fairly standard SB Tactical SBA3 brace. One set of Keymod holes was located on the underside at 6 oclock. The buttplate had a thin rubber pad smoothly integrated; it was more friendly to clothing or bare skin for that matter. Im looking eventually for a Tread 400 (maybe this one?). That said, neither of the suppressors was really quiet. The Saint is one of the most user-friendly versions of this user-friendly platform. I got it for around 900 dollars a little over a year ago. We tested our 1:7/1:8-twist-barreled carbines with 60-grain V-Max 223 Remington rounds plus 5.56mm ammunition topped with 69-grain OTM (open-tipped match), 77-grain OTM, and 77-grain TMK (tipped Match King) rounds from Black Hills Ammunition. So after that day it was on my dream list . MSRP: $949; ruger.com. The SIG Rattler is something special. The base of the grip was hinged to expose a storage space that was water resistant, thanks to a rubber gasket. No. Profits before the 2A. The metal loop at the heel of buttplate was free swinging. Barrel-twist rate was 1:8. Suppressed, the Rattler ran everything on the supersonic setting (less gas). This rifle also features a free float M-LOK handguard, ambidextrous controls and a rotating bolt system. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. Ben Voss FN Product Manager talks about the new FN SCAR 15P ultra-compact rifle-caliber pistol at SHOT Show 2023. Is the Rattler a precision instrument? He called it a stutter. The Saint was the only carbine in the test that listed a heavy tungsten buffer among its specs, and it showed by delivering less felt recoil to the shooter.
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